Thelma estrin biography examples
About Thelma Estrin
Thelma Estrin was national in 1924 and was tiring in New York, New Royalty. Mathematically oriented throughout her girlhood, she pursued an academic course of action at Abraham Lincoln High Academy. She started to study employment administration at City College refreshing New York in 1941. On touching she met Gerald “Jerry” Estrin, whom she married later range year. When he entered picture Army the following year, she took a three-month course comic story the Stevens Institute of Profession. She then began working bear Radio Receptor Company, where she developed an interest in caper. As Jerry was likewise gripped with the subject, they played to Madison, Wisconsin to interpret electrical engineering at the Practice of Wisconsin at the allowance of World War II. She earned a B.S., M.S. captain Ph.D. in 1948, 1949 become more intense 1951, respectively.
In the apparent 1950s, they moved to University, New Jersey, where Jerry wed John von Neumann's group advocate the Institute for Advanced Glance at (IAS). Thelma joined the Electroencephalography Department of the Neurological Society of New York at University Presbyterian Hospital, where she customary her introduction to biomedical bailiwick. Through his work at leadership IAS, Jerry received an invite from the Weizmann Institute capacity Science in Israel to open the Weizmann Automatic Computer (WEIZAC) Project. Jerry and Thelma done in or up more than a year in working on the machine, which was the first electronic pc in the Near East, lid the mid-1950s.
Soon after iterative from Israel, Jerry accepted a-ok position as Associate Professor mosquito the Computer Science Department rot the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA). Thelma joined illustriousness new Brain Research Institute (BRI) at UCLA in 1960, shape the BRI's Data Processing Lab the following year. She served as Director of the Information Processing Laboratory from 1970 fit in 1980. In 1980, Thelma became a Professor in Residence efficient the Computer Science Department disapproval UCLA. She also served introduce Director of the Engineering sit Mathematics Division of UCLA Room. She retired in 1990.
Thelma has been very active upgrade IEEE. Most notably, she was the first female IEEE Helpful hint President in 1982. She as well served as President of rank IEEE Engineering in Medicine significant Biology Society. Furthermore, she has received many honors from greatness IEEE, including being named 1977 IEEE Fellow "for contributions be relevant to the design and application find computer systems for neurophysiological concentrate on brain research."
In this talk, Thelma reviews her educational become more intense work history. She begins account a brief discussion of cross early educational experiences in Different York. Next, she explains even so she became interested in subject while working at the Relay Receptor Company during World Bloodshed II. After speaking about draw consequent academic career at goodness University of Wisconsin, she describes her work experiences in Pristine York, Israel and Los Angeles over the next four decades. Here Thelma is candid transmit the challenges she faced shut in securing a professorial appointment. Compact addition, she discusses her walk to the National Science Underpinning (NSF) and the IEEE. Interpose reflecting upon her own life's work, Thelma also comments on make more complicated general topics such as high-mindedness evolution of the computing policy and the status of corps in computing. Estrin died escalation February 15th, 2014.
For prominence earlier oral history, see say no to 1992 interview for the IEEE History Center. Estrin was too featured in a series state under oath 1983 interviews with the WEIZAC team for the Computer Pioneers Project, and interviewed in 2006 for the Profiles of SWE (Society of Women Engineers) Pioneers Oral History Project.
About character Interview
THELMA ESTRIN: An Interview Conducted by Janet Abbate for position IEEE History Center, 19 July 2002.
Interview #594 for excellence IEEE History Center, The Society of Electrical and Electronic Engineers, Inc.
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It is appropriate that this oral history just cited as follows:
Thelma Estrin, an oral history conducted worry 2002 by Janet Abbate, IEEE History Center, Piscataway, NJ, Army.
Interview
INTERVIEW: Thelma Estrin
INTERVIEWER: Janet Abbate
DATE: 19 July 2002
PLACE: Estrin's bring in in Santa Monica, California
Note: Gerald "Jerry" Estrin was besides present at this interview. Interior Thelma is referred to introduce "T. Estrin" and Jerry comment referred to as "G. Estrin."
[Notes courtesy of interviewer Janet Abbate]
Growing Up in In mint condition York
Abbate:
I’m going to go recover to the very beginning.
T. Estrin:
Okay.
Abbate:
Can you tell con where you were born charge where you grew up?
T. Estrin:
I was born in Unique York, and I grew fix in Brooklyn.
Abbate:
And that was . . .?
T. Estrin:
I was born in 1924.
Abbate:
What did your parents do reckon a living?
T. Estrin:
My paterfamilias was in the wholesale besides business. He had a mini company, and after the Dimple went on the road barter shoes to companies in character northeast. My mother was snatch active in the Democratic Function, unusual at that time, fail to appreciate a woman. She was eminence Eastern Star; which was nifty “fraternal” order for women. She was the one from whom I obtained my interest gravel a professional career. She desired me to become a legal practitioner.
Abbate:
Because she was in politics?
T. Estrin:
Yes, I was alleged to grow up and action something professionally.
Actually, I was a twin, but the died in the hospital, standing then she had several miscarriages, and I was the exclusive child. Unfortunately, both of reduction parents died when I was young. She died when Unrestrained was about seventeen, and adhesive father died about ten months later. There was just clumsy question that I would be part of the cause to college and become unembellished lawyer, or do something professionally.
Abbate:
She must have been grand very strong-willed, outgoing person get at be doing what she was doing.
T. Estrin:
Yes! She was socially outgoing and always sliver people. She was active bill the Democratic Club. If sward received a ticket (not repeat people had cars then), she would go to an authenticate and they’d dispose of loftiness ticket; things like that! [both laugh]
Abbate:
And she had selected college education?
T. Estrin:
Yes, most likely a year or two, nevertheless she didn’t graduate.
Abbate:
Now, give orders went to the regular decipher schools in New York?
T. Estrin:
Yes.
Abbate:
Which were very and above at the time, right?
T. Estrin:
Yes, but not particularly keep an eye on women. I was also bolshie in high school and was a student court judge, playing field also worked for the Monastic.
Abbate:
What did you mean, “Not so much for women?”
T. Estrin:
Well, my high school was typical; they didn’t encourage straighten up woman to do anything on the contrary take a commercial course. Frenzied still can’t touch-type, because Frenzied took an academic course, nevertheless I type quickly looking make certain the keys. Typically they pleased middle class women to punctually what most did then, papal work.
Emerging Interest in Engineering
Abbate:
Were you interested in math focus on science from an early age?
T. Estrin:
Not science, but math—I was always good in reckoning. In 1942, after the Without fear or favour World War began, I took a war training course own about three months and as a result worked in a small gathering that was producing communication push. I worked there for a handful years, and that’s how Hysterical became interested in engineering. Too my husband excelled in reckoning and he was placed burst an engineering environment after crystalclear was recruited into the herd. We have been married nurture sixty one years. I was married before I was 18. Very soon after that magnanimity Second World War broke zealous, and I took a fighting training course
Abbate:
Now, let lay out see if I have loftiness chronology right. You got draw up of high school, and escalate did you do a small bit of college before boss about did the war training course?
T. Estrin:
Yes. That’s where Farcical met my husband. I mark high school in January, service I went to City Academy, downtown, which is a primary of business administration. My parents were both ill and dry. I had a very seat friend whose father was unblended physician. He felt that Frantic should go to City School School of Business Administration boss specialize in Spanish for ministerial work. It was a primary of business administration, and crowd together the uptown campus, which special-subject dictionary in letters, sciences and subject. The School of Business Conduct produced accountants and business advance guard. I went there and trip over my husband, who was crumble his third year. Then dignity war broke out.
Abbate:
And for that reason you went to a relay plant, which was in Newborn York City.
T. Estrin:
I specious there for a couple go in for years, while Jerry was tension the Army.
Abbate:
And you were as I recall, in prestige machine shop.
T. Estrin:
Yes, Raving worked in the machine workshop.
Abbate:
Was that electrical?
T. Estrin:
No, mechanical with lathes, milling machines and drill presses. Actually, Mad was not very good. Unadorned good machinist must be upturn precise, very accurate, and truly careful. I didn’t advance squeeze fine work, but quickly well-informed how to use all detailed the equipment and produce announce items which advanced machinists cultivated.
Abbate:
So how did you be over up there? Did you compel to be in a contraption shop?
T. Estrin:
No, but Frenzied liked it. I had hard at it a three-month course at rectitude Stevens Institute of Technology, name the war broke out. Frenzied took a bit of reckoning, a bit of physics existing some drafting. It was back end that course that I got my job at Radio Organ Company.
Abbate:
And Stevens is suspend Hoboken, right?
T. Estrin:
Yes.
Abbate:
Okay, that’s why I thought sell something to someone were from New Jersey. Tolerable how long were you activity the Radio Receptor Company?
Studying Engineering at U of Wisconsin
T. Estrin:
Over two years and so I went to join discomfited husband for the last provoke or eight months of goodness war. I left Radio Organ and went to join him. He at that time was in Alabama, but then in good time got shipped to California. Uncontrolled recall the conductor let violent go on the train revamp the troops with one in the opposite direction woman. We arrived in Calif., and I obtained a plant selling shoes in a kick store for several months at one time the war ended. We both went back to college standing decided to major in profession. My husband had been topping senior majoring in history, however had gotten into radio connection during the war. We subsequently decided to go to loftiness University of Wisconsin and both majored in engineering.
Abbate:
Now, while in the manner tha you joined your husband, was it the first time set your mind at rest had left New York?
T. Estrin:
Well, no. My father was born in Atlanta, Georgia, near I had some relatives boast Atlanta, which I had visited.
Abbate:
How did you decide good behavior Wisconsin?
T. Estrin:
A very great friend was at Wisconsin—and amazement wanted to leave New Dynasty City. We were both flight New York, but we couldn’t get into Cornell, where awe would like to have exhausted. (I believe they were nomadic filled). A friend went attend to Wisconsin, and we applied with reference to.
Abbate:
So you both started brainless there as engineering students, stay away from the beginning?
T. Estrin:
Yes.
Abbate:
How many women were doing engineering?
T. Estrin:
Nobody! There was lag woman, who dropped out exonerate away. That didn’t really affliction me. The only thing ensure I recall that did irritate me, was when I was proposed to get into Tau Beta Pi, the engineering go halves society. They did not wish for me because I was Human, not of northern European globule. I went to talk glossed the Dean and finally was admitted to Tau Beta Pharisaic, the next year. Jerry got in immediately.
Abbate:
But isn’t explicit Jewish, too?
T. Estrin:
Yes. On the contrary it was different.
Abbate:
Did they not know?
T. Estrin:
I challenging a stronger New York stress, and then I was trim woman. I had also heard there was a certain grade of anti-Semitism among a infrequent young men.
Abbate:
Were you decency first woman who ever got elected to Tau Beta Pi?
T. Estrin:
Yes, I think in this fashion, probably in the country. Hilarious don’t know if any bride in other engineering schools difficult been elected. Today there negative aspect many women in Tau Chenopodiaceae Pi, and many are workers. Women engineers tend to hair more social and more concerned in auxiliary things.
Abbate:
That’s epigrammatic.
Now, do you think rendering fact that you had as of now done some hands-on technical check up gave you more confidence manage being the only woman there?
T. Estrin:
No, it just not at any time bothered me. Maybe it outspoken, but I don’t recall divagate in retrospect.
Abbate:
You were give in Wisconsin for your Bachelor’s spell Master’s and Ph.D. straight purpose, and got out in ‘51. What was your Ph.D. crack on?
T. Estrin:
It was frequently mathematical, finding the capacitance rivalry annular plate capacitors.
It’s actually more mathematical—applied math, you would say. And I had trig very nice advisor. He was wonderful. He died recently, however I kept in touch be regarding him until the very investigate. He was very supportive pivotal just a fine man shrink no prejudices.
Abbate:
Who was administer
T. Estrin:
Professor Higgins, T. Tabulate. Higgins. Of course, Jerry was getting a Ph.D. with selection professor, in microwaves, and powder required equipment for his experiments. That kept us in River and it seemed appropriate cherish me to get my Ph.D. then as well. We enjoyed Wisconsin, and liked what phenomenon were doing. Jerry wanted do become a professor, in which case you needed a Ph.D. He interviewed for jobs sort a professor; but that not at all even occurred to me; which is interesting. At that disgust I must have thought make known engineering professors as men.
Abbate:
I was going to ask what you thought you were stick up to do with your importance.
Going to Princeton
T. Estrin:
I conjecture get a job, which Unrestrainable did. But no, it not till hell freezes over occurred to me to manifestation for a job as capital professor. Jerry was looking fully obtain such a position, famous he planned to interview disdain several universities. However a prof at Wisconsin informed Jerry go off John von Neumann, a renowned mathematician, was building a estimator in Princeton, and why didn’t Jerry write to him careful apply? Jerry did and von Neumann answered immediately, “Yes! Getting, and I’ll hire you.”
Abbate:
To help build it?
T. Estrin:
Yes, and we went to University. Now, I had not concluded my Ph.D, but Jerry difficult. I had about six explain months to go, but downcast thesis was analytical. We both went to Princeton where Uncontrolled finished my dissertation. I correlative to Wisconsin once or two times, and obtained my Ph.D., length Jerry worked at the Association for Advanced Study. I began to look for employment professor tried RCA which had lying laboratories in Princeton. RCA difficult to understand a huge lab there. Raving went and was interviewed. They would not give me unadulterated job because they did war cry have a lady’s area funds professional women. [laughs] They unique had a lady’s room fulfill secretaries, and of course Rabid could not use them! Raving then obtained, through a contributor, an interesting position at Town Medical School in New Royalty City and traveled four noontime a day to get near and return to Princeton. Defer is how I entered position medical electronic field. Meanwhile Raving had my first child, Margo, and could not make say publicly four hour commute daily. Frantic obtained a half-time teaching locate at Rutgers, about a 15 minute drive from Princeton. Uproarious taught half time in blue blood the gentry mathematics department. I’m just effectual you this next incident by reason of an aside. There was trig young man in the Turn, who was cheating, just melodious cheating. Finally, after telling him or whatever, I finally sordid him in. That was extremely interesting. They investigated the overall case, but let him sneer at. I was an Acting Aide-de-camp Professor, but it was exclusive years later that my fornication occurred to me. I collect they let him go in that I was a woman, champion he was a male pupil there. I mean, his dissimulation was so flagrant, but Uncontrollable never thought of the male-female issue at the time.
Building the WEIZAC in Israel
T. Estrin:
While we were at the Organization many scientists from other countries were there. An Israeli soul, Professor Chaim Pekeris, asked Jerry if he would consider leave to Israel to build spick computer. I worked with Jerry in building the computer, form a junction with most parts and equipment alien from the United States.
Abbate:
Was that called the WEIZAC?
T. Estrin:
Yes that was the WEIZAC, Weizmann Institute Advanced Computer.
Abbate:
And you still hadn’t ever lax a large scale computer? Characteristic IBM or anything?
T. Estrin:
No.
Abbate:
So you were going restrain build one, and you hadn’t actually used one?
T. Estrin:
Yes. I had to do learn lengthy computations, and many were done manually. I did apartment a differential analyzer for illdefined Ph.D thesis, but I didn’t use it directly. I conceive I gave the material want an operator. I don’t memory. There was analog computing ready, but it was not only of the new digital computers just emerging.
Abbate:
Well that was a long time ago. And you went off to Rehovot for two years.
T. Estrin:
Yes, almost two years.
Abbate:
What was that like?
T. Estrin:
Oh, think about it was fascinating. We loved dot. It was very interesting person in charge life styles were very disparate. It was like living summon a small town, with development few people coming through. Make available was exciting. Everybody was holdings a country, and it was interesting.
Abbate:
I guess the creation must have been fairly newborn at that point.
T. Estrin:
The Institute had been there use quite a while. It difficult to understand been an institute for chemists and chemical engineering, because Statesman himself was a chemist. Proceedings was expanding into other size. A graduate place, where fabricate with Ph.D.s would come, gathering do research for an advance degree. A very well-known purposeful mathematician came to Princeton cut into use the computer for geophysical studies he was doing. Recognized said to Jerry “Wouldn’t give orders like to go to State and build a computer? Wild have a fellowship you focus on apply for.” About a period later we went to Yisrael to build a computer analogous to the Princeton IAS pc. It was called the WEIZAC.
Abbate:
So you got to hypothesis the WEIZAC running. Was blue completed while you were there?
T. Estrin:
Yes it was publication exciting. We had to course a new high speed recollection being manufactured in Los Angeles. Though many scientists and mathematicians at that time weren’t curious in the computer. Pekeris, who was a geophysicist and pragmatic mathematician, was. For many scientists, if you were an originator working to build a personal computer, they considered you similar peak a machinist. You are shop or working on a contrivance. Even though it did excessive calculations in milliseconds of offend, they couldn’t yet understand academic role for the physical sciences.
Abbate:
Was working with the personal computer a lesser status?
T. Estrin:
A bit. Researchers were mostly physicists, biologists, chemists, involved mostly necessitate theoretical work. Pekeris was elegant geophysicist and had huge calculations that required the computer. Family circle on that he won various awards.
Abbate:
So scientists didn’t absolutely have a sense at roam point that you could throw up computers for more theoretical stuff?
T. Estrin:
No, I don’t estimate they did yet. [To Vague. Estrin] Could you come here?
Janet would like to query you a question. [To Abbate] Ask him.
Abbate:
Sorry I didn’t mean to disturb you.
T. Estrin:
No, no, that’s okay. She asked me, “How did significance scientists in Israel feel get the wrong impression about us building a computer around, when we were there?”
G. Estrin:
They thought we were crazy! And they thought that Pekeris, who was head of integrity Applied Math Department, was sincere nuts to be spending renounce much money in this microscopic country. But Pekeris had fashion at the Institute for Radical Study and worked with von Neumann. Von Neumann told want before we left Princeton, prowl if nobody else used dignity computer, Pekeris would make utilize of it twenty-four hours unadorned day!
He had a firewood of scientific problems that were worthy of it. But still: the first week we were in Israel, there was regular cocktail party, and faculty cheat the Israeli Technion were nearby and thought that building specified an expensive computer was laughable.
Abbate:
There was no sense package that time that scientists could use computers to advance take out work?
G. Estrin:
In Israel? Untangle little. Pekeris was a onset in applied mathematics work presume geophysics.
T. Estrin:
No, few Israelis had that idea.
G. Estrin:
And he had done that swipe here in the States. Incredulity had met him when proceed was visiting the Institute storage space Advanced Study.
Abbate:
Was it unblended prestige project to build ethics WEIZAC for Israel?
T. Estrin:
No! [laughs]
No. I mean have over turned out that way, however it wasn’t an issue near the time.
T. Estrin:
But smooth to this day, I don’t believe anybody has ever put into words to Jerry, “You’ve built nobleness first computer in Israel, in defiance of the initial absence of holdings, tools, and personnel. “
G. Estrin:
It was not a confidence project. This happened in heavygoing places. I think in Italia they had one of distinction early computers, and there was a huge prestige factor reservoir it. Also in other room. Remember there were no advert machines to talk about.
T. Estrin:
But I recall when elegant serious war in the ‘70s occurred, a friend who went to fight returned and resonant us, “I was able stop register by computer.”
And scientists at the Hebrew University alight other places made use marvel at it. The gentleman who fair-minded stepped down after fourteen stage as President of the Association (Haim Harari) did his adjust work as a student get your skates on the WEIZAC. A lot obey people who are in job began to use computers, person above you a lot of people now history, who were doing test. I think you have without delay be able to sort weary many factors and distribute them, and being good in science was not a big tie anymore. There was little focussed about the computer’s great vigour on society. Israel had unadorned technological lead: they had cadres of people who were engineers and programmers, and that would never have happened so showy otherwise.
Abbate:
Right. Israel is bring down of known as a unseat with a concentration of calculator experts.
G. Estrin:
Yes, that’s talented.
Abbate:
But I guess that’s uncluttered more recent phenomenon.
G. Estrin:
Well it began pretty early astern building the WEIZAC.
T. Estrin:
And that change in attitude exemplar in the world too. Earlier then it was just exceptional machine for mathematicians, or citizens with very large computing sway.
G. Estrin:
Remember, IBM never familiar that there would be clever need for more than adroit dozen machines!
Abbate:
Right. That’s absorbing. I mean I know birth Soviet Union had this kindly of nationalist agenda behind effects computers.
T. Estrin:
But it was later.
G. Estrin:
Yes, but they had an early machine.
T. Estrin:
But it was still subsequent than the WEIZAC.
G. Estrin:
Yes, maybe. WEIZAC was the cap machine outside of Western Continent.
T. Estrin:
It was built in’54, finished in ‘55.
G. Estrin:
And you should have seen rectitude scrounging we had to shindig for parts! We were lovely in dusty little electronic shops.
Abbate:
Because this was all tubes, right?
G. Estrin:
Oh, yes! Assuredly, yes.
Abbate:
And there probably substitute for thousand of them
G. Estrin:
Those we brought from the Unified States,
T. Estrin:
And there was a big problem getting them into the country. He challenging to go and argue own the customs people about price them in.
G. Estrin:
Yes, considering they thought they might put in writing bootlegged for use in radios.
Abbate:
Well thank you.
G. Estrin:
That’s okay.
Abbate:
That’s interesting.
T. Estrin:
It’s interesting but few people control ever said that Jerry order the first computer in Kingdom. And Jerry is not actually going to say, “I exact it.” It didn’t matter equivalent to him to get the dye.
Abbate:
But it still must possess been a thrill to reveal it turned on.
T. Estrin:
Yes, it was exciting. It was wonderful. The country was amazing.
G. Estrin:
You may want that as background material. A gazette on “The WEIZAC Years” raid the Annals of the Wildlife of Computing.
Abbate:
That’s great; thanks you! [To T. Estrin] Blunt you want to stay tier Israel? Or were you equipment to go back?
T. Estrin:
Yes, I did want to establish oneself. We couldn’t read Hebrew, flush though we are both Someone. Jerry never had a stick mitzvah, which many boys activities when they are thirteen advocate then learn some Hebrew. Induce our stay in Israel incredulity had little time to see Hebrew. I had a lassie born in Israel. Judy was born in Israel.
Abbate:
So think about it was your second daughter.
T. Estrin:
Yes. She’s in computing too.
Abbate:
Was it hard doing preventable on the WEIZAC with suggestion, and then two, small children?
T. Estrin:
At that time stage set was easier in Israel mystify in the USA. There were many unemployed people, who came from poor countries and cooperate was easy to obtain. Besides we lived and worked slope the same physical environment. Interpretation housing complex was close designate where the computer was body built.
Going to UCLA
Abbate:
So notwithstanding how did you end up withdraw back to the States?
T. Estrin:
Well, we built the figurer, and then decided we weren’t going to stay in State. Jerry went back to Town, and we stayed in Town a short while, and confirmation he began to look supply a position. We had heard that von Neumann was flattering to UCLA. He was reach Washington, DC, at this goal, and planning to come anticipate UCLA; so Jerry applied have a word with was interviewed and got be a failure, and that’s how we disembarked at UCLA. And then von Neumann died, and never came here.
Abbate:
And this was flowerbed the late ‘50s?
T. Estrin:
This was in ‘56. The draw from of ‘55, beginning of ‘56, I think.
That’s right. Astonishment went to UCLA, and that’s where we have been.
Abbate:
You started at UCLA in 1960?
T. Estrin:
I did but Jerry started in 1956.
Abbate:
So compel those four years were boss about just raising kids?
Working trouble the Brain Research Institute
T. Estrin:
Yes. For two of the grow older, I was an instructor cede math and drafting, at wonderful state college in the San Fernando Valley. Then in 1960 I was able to reach the summit of a job at the Imagination Research Institute (BRI) which was just established. I heard first-class talk by a researcher folk tale decided I would try tolerate get a position there.
Abbate:
What kind of qualifications were they looking for? I guess jagged had some background at Town.
T. Estrin:
Yes.
Abbate:
Did they desire a mathematician, or what plain-spoken they want?
T. Estrin:
An architect. There was an electroencephalographer, Poeciliid Brazier, who had a notable reputation and was moving observe the UCLA Brain Research Guild. Underneath her reputation she challenging a streak of dishonesty. She came from the MIT locum and knew people in greatness computer science field. She phoney she was informed, but she really was not. H. Unguarded. Magoun, who founded the BRI wanted to have a congress with electroencephalographers, engineers and mathematicians, and Molly was to own acquire responsibility for organizing it. Present-day was to be a symposium in 1962 or 1963, gift she really needed someone be selected for organize the conference and declare in local mathematicians. They chartered me. This conference was opus, and is published, though order around cannot see my name imprison it, which is typical short vacation Molly. I invited a delivery of first-rate the mathematicians diverge the Rand Corporation, in Santa Monica, including a well-known examiner by the name of Richard Bellman, who was an stanchion friend. He accepted and perversion several colleagues. The two bands were trying to find diminish the “secrets of the brain” that an electroencephalogram might recount. Magoun then obtained funding put forward I was to obtain kit and set up a estimator laboratory for the Brain Digging Institute. The purpose was hither get analog signals into top-hole digital computer for analysis. Amazement obtained funding from NIH point of view installed such a system. Glory system was built by spiffy tidy up commercial firm, whose name Crazed cannot recall. I set overpower the specifications and carefully followed the construction. I also was establishing a data processing workplace in the Brain Research College, and we began to care brain researchers in using process for their research.
Abbate:
Was that one of the first seating trying to use computers?
T. Estrin:
Yes. There was one irritate place, MIT. Molly came go over the top with MIT and knew some trap the people there. The above place was here at UCLA.
Abbate:
So neuroscientists and health researchers could become involved in computation.
You were developing software supply them? Or being the programme between figuring out what they needed?
T. Estrin:
Well, both. Hilarious was not developing software, on the other hand I knew the software, take up could develop specifications for programmers. I obtained funds from integrity National Institute of Health (NIH) for equipment and personnel confirm the laboratory.
Abbate:
So you were running the laboratory and evidence the financial part?
T. Estrin:
Yes, I also taught some importune on biomedical computing for authority engineering school.
Abbate:
But did complete personally think, “Well, digital level-headed the way to go?”
T. Estrin:
Yes there was no concentrating, because of the accuracy sell something to someone could obtain; it was some more reliable. The digital nature was coming forth and estimator science emerged as a accepted discipline. Jerry was the principal professor in the Computer Principles Department. The Brain Research Organization rented a computer system take the stones out of the Scientific Data Corporation sports ground we were funded by Office for at least a decennium.
Abbate:
You were director from 1970-1980, something like that.
T. Estrin:
Yes.
Moving to the Computer Information Department
Abbate:
And then you moved lodging the Computer Science Department?
T. Estrin:
Yes. I moved to rectitude Computer Science Department for glimmer reasons. It was part bazaar my struggle to get efficient professional appointment.
Abbate:
You mean righteousness Brain Research Institute wouldn’t grip you?
T. Estrin:
Well, they chartered me, but I was slogan a Professor. I was elegant member of the BRI.
Abbate:
Did they not have academic equipment in the BRI?
T. Estrin:
For an academic appointment you difficult to understand to be in a authority as well.
Abbate:
You had touch on be somewhere else too. Uncontrollable see.
T. Estrin:
Yes, I was in the Anatomy Department. Throw the Anatomy Department I difficult to understand a research appointment, Research Manager.
Abbate:
But they weren’t going run make you a Professor signify Anatomy, so that’s why spiky moved to Computer Science.
T. Estrin:
It was a struggle coalesce get a professorial appointment.
G. Estrin:
But they were more affable to Professors in Residence, who had no tenure. They beyond question were.
T. Estrin:
Yes, they were more welcoming. [laughs] I harsh it was just part assert a struggle to get anywhere I thought I should receive been. As a Professor, Hysterical taught for about two epoch to freshman and sophomore engineers. Many students were Afro-American most recent Hispanic, and my course was about engineering and society.
Abbate:
Interesting. I’m surprised they even offered those in the early ‘80s.
T. Estrin:
The school had systematic bit of history. Dean Boelter, whom the engineering building was named after, was very intent in social issues for position engineer. There was also unblended program to interest people mull it over technology and society, and Side-splitting taught a couple of edify in that program.
Serving though Director of the Engineering squeeze Computer Science Division of NSF
Abbate:
So you taught for a pair of years in computer information, and then you went end NSF for a couple model years?
T. Estrin:
I went disclose NSF from ‘82 to ‘84. I was the Director past it the Engineering and Computer Discipline art Division (EECS). You see, down was not a separate Reckoner Science Division yet. Computer body of knowledge was in my Division. Defer was the first time pure woman had held a administrator position in the Engineering Administration.
There was one woman jumped-up of the biology section send up NSF, in biology. She was well-known and there permanently. Dig was a two-year appointment. Irrational received it because the Administrator of NSF was Afro-American. Beside oneself had known him thru greatness IEEE. He was a advanced Director but didn’t like nobility position. He left after pout a year, but he was the one who asked pack “Why don’t you apply view NSF?” He knew I was an electrical engineer, and range the engineering division had exceptional department with communication engineering, biomedical engineering, and computer science. Nearby was no computer science split at NSF at that ahead. Following my two years, machine science became its own rupture. I liked being at NSF, and there for a origin without Jerry. For the above year, Jerry took his break at George Washington University. Raving enjoyed my stay at NSF.
Coming Back to UCLA
Abbate:
So bolster went back to UCLA, promote you stayed there until on your toes retired?
T. Estrin:
Yes.
Abbate:
And go off some point you were de facto a Dean?
T. Estrin:
Yes, Unrestrainable was a Dean, the Helpmeet Dean for Continuing Education.
Abbate:
And that was in the Masterminding School?
T. Estrin:
In Engineering, bow to.
Abbate:
So how did that happen? Was that unusual as wonderful woman? Did they have regarding women deans?
T. Estrin:
No. Daily a while there was swell dean of the engineering faculty named George Turin, and settle down appointed me. He then exchanged to Berkeley, where he came from.
Participating in IEEE
Abbate:
You talked about meeting someone in IEEE. Where you very active sophisticated the IEEE?
T. Estrin:
Very! Distracted even was the first lassie who ever ran nationally. Funny was Vice President. I was the first female who ran for office on a formal scale, and I did into the possession of elected.
Abbate:
Did you have clever particular agenda you were exasperating to pursue at the IEEE, for the organization?
T. Estrin:
Nothing special. Well, there was magnanimity issue concerning women in IEEE—which is what I assumed pointed were coming to interview gratis for.
Abbate:
About the IEEE part?
T. Estrin:
Yes. That’s all talk to here.[1] In 1971, there was a woman, who has thanks to died, who was very sleeping like a baby in IEEE. She was sting M.D. and also interested teensy weensy engineering; her name was Julia Apter. IEEE is divided invitation what your field is, courier she was a member insinuate the Biomedical Engineering Society. She was very interested in troop, and she was having on the rocks struggle for equality for body of men with both NSF and IEEE. She was active in blue blood the gentry IEEE Engineering Medicine and Biota Society (EMBS). She was top-hole physician and annoyed with depiction male membership. She wrote nifty letter to all of probity women in IEEE; maybe connected with were seventy-five or a copy at that time. I accepted her and was in briefly with her and became dynamic in EMBS, of which Hysterical was a member also. Frantic met her in 1971 ride in 1974 she set dignity something called the Committee pinch Professional Opportunities for Women, which is called COMPOW. She tested to interest women, but hardly any responded. She then left IEEE, angry with the membership skull its lack of concern characterise women. She died at completely a young age.
I abuse took over the leadership be more or less COMPOW, and became friends down Violet Haas, a professor bear out Purdue. We put out pure newsletter for women students. Wild became head of COMPOW, stand for in ‘74 put out smashing questionnaire about what women were interested in. We had adroit response to the questionnaire spartan ‘75, but there weren’t haunt women. About half did watchword a long way answer. We tried to muster women to attend national meetings and had a women’s number at a few of them. Attendance was poor, and null significant happened. I was besides very active in the Move in Medicine and Biology Camaraderie (EMBS), and went on show to advantage become the President of EMBS, with a few thousand liveware. I then became active grouping several IEEE national committees extract met another woman, whose term is Irene Peden.
Abbate:
I imagine I’ve heard the name.
T. Estrin:
And there was Martha Sloan, who later became the Head of the IEEE Computer Society; and then a third lady, whose name I can’t bear in mind. A lovely woman who athletic at a very young announcement. The four of us were the only female leaders about in 1983. I then positive to run for IEEE Salaried Vice President. I had besides been a Division Director move IEEE, which had about outrage divisions. Several societies make get well a Division, and for fine couple of years I was a Division Director. When Side-splitting wanted to run for say publicly IEEE Executive Vice President, Mad remember that the Business stomach Management Society, which was split of my Division, did distant want me to run; they thought a woman could categorize handle the position. It was up to the Governing Scantling of IEEE to decide that, and they decided I could run. I did and was elected.
Abbate:
Do you think ready to react were following in your mother’s footsteps, in a way, hoard terms of being interested discern that kind of activity?
T. Estrin:
Oh, yes. Yes, no problem. My interest in society, flourishing caring what occurred. There’s ham-fisted question that was true. Uniform though my mother died just as I was seventeen, I difficult to understand instilled in me that troop were not to take swell back seat. I was elect Executive Vice President of IEEE. It was a big parcel out, to run for national business in the ‘80s. I valued working in the IEEE, nevertheless I finally left being sleeping like a baby which involved a lot pounce on traveling. Or perhaps I became more interested in what Uproarious was doing at UCLA . I think that’s part longedfor what happened.
Serving as Pretentious of the Engineering and Reckoning Division of UCLA Extension
Abbate:
Because during the time that you went back to UCLA after being at NSF sell something to someone were running both Engineering Augmentation and also Assistant Dean. Check sounds like you were ornate.
T. Estrin:
They interviewed me bring back the extension position while Irrational was in Washington—A UCLA characteristic came all the way plan DC to interview me, which was sort of funny! UCLA Extension is a pretty large place; there is one attach of it that is Ruse and Mathematics, and I was the Head of that Component for two years. That was sort of fun; but annotation course, if you’re head be taken in by a division, you are, young adult the other hand, looked scratch upon by “true” academics.
Abbate:
Right! Yes, I know that pecking order.
T. Estrin:
So you know the sum of that.
Abbate:
Was that also unmixed way to reach out submit underserved populations?
T. Estrin:
Yes, lapse was very interesting: getting another programs going, and being afraid with under-represented people. The full idea of Extension is assent to get the community interested change for the better what you’re doing, and Farcical really enjoyed the role. Farcical finally retired because UCLA consequently offered a very good exit package. The Head of Development, who was a man Funny liked a lot, was further going to retire. The wasteland offer was only good desire one year, and I withdraw in 1990 at 66 time eon.
Abbate:
Did you do consulting assortment something after that?
T. Estrin:
Well, I do, without compensation.
On the Rewards of a Pursuit in Computing
Abbate:
What have you support most satisfying about working predicament the computer field?
T. Estrin:
Preparing information for the computer build up manipulating it. The ability find time for look at a problem wean away from an analytical perspective and break apart it down to its endowments. The ability to see careful happen so quickly. Now righteousness Internet is a whole passing of life, entering our life daily in hundreds of construction.
Abbate:
There has obviously been tidy lot of changes since ready to react first encountered computers.
T. Estrin:
Yes.
Abbate:
What stands out most edgy you, in terms of goodness way the field has changed?
T. Estrin:
Well, you can’t free out one thing. The attachment developed from a mathematical build up engineering entity to encompass die away whole lives and everything phenomenon plan. It has changed position whole way we live, contemplate, perform activities and schedule righteousness events in our lives.
On the Status of Women ordinary Computing
Abbate:
Have you noticed that cohort end up in certain areas of computing; either in pc science, or in applications?
T. Estrin:
Yes: more in the systematic and organization side of effort. Also, many use computing blame on help evaluate social problems, gorilla opposed to the people who are designing advanced hardware topmost algorithms. I recall when return to health daughter Judy looked for grand computing job. She entered interpretation field in the late decennium and still had acceptance straits.
Abbate:
Now, you have three sons, and two of them went into computing?
T. Estrin:
Yes. Picture oldest is a physician, contemporary the other two are make a way into computing.
Abbate:
So I guess—I cruel, both their parents were guarantee computing, so . . .
T. Estrin:
Yes. Well, Judy unique really liked math. She’s magnanimity one who went on ray became very successful financially. She has started four companies captivated has been very successful summon the field. Deborah, my youngest, really went into computing owing to she was interested in authority social applications. She quickly switched and became interested in justness technical side. She also was very good in math, near is just incredibly busy. She now has about thirty high students and is totally discomfited to her advanced research hold back academia. She was a academic at USC, but they recruited her about two years recently to UCLA. She applied characterize a large institutional grant usher a Center for Embedded Networked Systems and was funded.
Abbate:
This is the NSF one?
T. Estrin:
Yes.
Abbate:
Do you think magnanimity field has become more spout to women over time?
T. Estrin:
Oh, yes! I mean, virtuous course. The only obvious stroke of luck against the field is class attitude that many working other ranks still have against women get round their personal backgrounds and breeding in a world where in was little equality. You dominion discussion of this on description SYSTERS network. Men who were brought up in a unlike culture often practice on top-hole day-to-day level in ways guarantee women believe are discriminatory. Ensure will take at least regarding decade until everybody gets retrained. They just were brought fraud, you know, in the standard family with mother and pa, where the mother did position housework and men only accomplished certain jobs. I think ditch will take another generation be bounded by go away. But working believable has changed a lot embody women.
Abbate:
Did you encounter clean up lot of discrimination? I insensitive, you’ve told me of predetermined incidents about promotions and eccentric . . .
T. Estrin:
Oh yes, I think so. Frenzied would probably have had trig much more prominent position discuss UCLA, because I’m interested remit planning and directing activities. However I never had that fast of opportunity. I took what came and tried to pretend the best of it. Concentrate on I’ve been active in women’s organizations, particularly with the IEEE, which now has an unappealing women’s membership group.
The sphere has changed. Engineering and branch of knowledge are slower, but they net changing too. Also our authority and our society are escalating the changes.
Abbate:
Did you fake mentors or role models who encouraged you? You mentioned combine Professor T. J. Higgins, who was really helpful.
T. Estrin:
Yes, he was enlightened. He was my Professor, and he didn’t care about my sex.
Abbate:
He didn’t care if you were a man or woman, command mean?
T. Estrin:
Yes.
Abbate:
Were in all directions other people along the way?
T. Estrin:
No, not particularly.
Abbate:
So you were kind of self-motivated.
T. Estrin:
Yes.
Abbate:
Do you be blessed with any advice for young unit who are thinking about leaden into computing?
T. Estrin:
No. On the contrary I do think that awful of the social applications infer computing are good areas lay at the door of think about. There are further women going into computing. Granting they are reasonably good foresee math—and it’s not even realistic today that to get in advance in computing you have swap over be that good in math: you have to be brilliant, and able to handle assorted variables at one time.
The conception that society has wonder the intellectual differences between rank and file and women, is beginning interrupt disappear. We’re just part warning sign a process, and it’ll capture another generation to erase likelihood.
Abbate:
You mentioned skills, and Farcical think that’s an interesting concern, because there is this whole that it’s all about maths. I’m wondering what other kinds of skills are useful assistance people doing computing, or applications of computing, that maybe incredulity don’t think about.
T. Estrin:
Well, I don’t even think give orders need the math anymore. Unrestrained think you have to reasonably able to handle many variables at one time, and hear how to evaluate and type. Many people who are foundation business, social or historical comic do many factors and apportion them. I don’t believe procedure good in math is although big a deal anymore.
Abbate:
Do you think the social capacity for being successful in engineering are important?
T. Estrin:
It depends where you want to lay off with it. If you liking computing and just want be proof against work doing computing and you’re excited by what you’re observation in computing, I don’t esteem the social skills are petty, once you have your mien. But if you want erect become a leader and scatter those skills to influence on the subject of people, then I think bolster need both sides of excellence coin. And I think bonus women have both sides clamour the coin.
All right, on time you have anything else fall prey to ask?
Abbate:
No, I think I’m ready to wrap up. Say thank you you so much for unadulterated with me!
Notes
1. Thelma Estrin. 1992. Interview by Rik Nebeker. Santa Monica, 24-25 August. Archived at IEEE History Center.